John Geib was still a teenager when he was drafted into military service in Vietnam, but even then he did not believe it was a just war. When he went to explain this to the military, he said that they weren’t exactly welcoming of his request to be considered a conscientious objector.
Dr. John Gieb (right) threatened to move to Canada if the United States government drafted him during the Vietnam War (by Kaitie Fox).
“My manhood was threatened,” said Geib. “My patriotism was threatened. My courage was threatened.” However, he quickly added that he thought those questioning him were just doing their job to ensure that he wasn’t trying to avoid combat out of fear.
Only by threatening to go to Canada if he was still drafted was Geib finally able to convince them that he was serious about his convictions.
Geib explained this story and his Christian pacifist beliefs when he spoke at the be:Justice event “The Untold Consequences: War and Its Lesser Known Effects” last Monday. The student organization be:Justice is a Malone-based club dedicated to issues of social justice and raising awareness.
Luke Taylor, president of be:Justice, opened the event. Taylor suggested that there is a “veil” that comes between citizens of a country in war and the consequences of that war, shielding the people from truly seeing and understanding those consequences.
“Is there such a thing as a necessary evil in the Kingdom of God?” Taylor asked the audience. He listed issues of social justice that war brings, such as increase in subjugation of women, psychological damage to combatants and civilian casualties.
“When a home is destroyed because there are militants inside it, perhaps there is a home next door destroyed as well,” Taylor explained. While he said he’s not trying to silence those who believe war can be just, he doesn’t think that these concerns about war should be ignored.
“The ultimate focus is how we as the Church can be moved to respond and not remain silent,” Taylor said.
Geib, who was an associate professor of biblical studies at Malone for 19 years, opened his discussion with a quote from Civil War general William Tecumseh Sherman: “War is all hell.”
Geib then started discussing some of the history of war in the United States, from Sherman’s strategy of leveling everything in his path to the dropping of nuclear weapons in World War II.
“The United States is the only country in the history of the world to drop an atomic bomb,” he said, adding that President Truman claimed he never regretted that decision.
“That’s the kind of decision the President has to make,” Geib said, and then posed the question of what would have happened had the President chosen not to drop the bomb. His answer was an estimated hundreds of thousands of deaths of U.S. troops in an invasion of mainland Japan.
“Do you think [the United States would] launch large-scale nuclear weapons and turn other countries into ash?” Geib asked. “Yes? What do you think about that?”
Geib mentioned a survey done by one of his students when he was teaching here in the 1980s. Faculty and staff members were asked what their views on war were – and only one percent of those polled were pacifists.
“I figured out that had to be me,” he said. “I know very well that the just war position is the majority view here.”
Geib said he thinks that just war theory can be responsibly advanced.
“There’s something inside a collective body of people that says, ‘We can’t allow this to go on,’” Geib said. He said that almost no one would argue that Hitler should have stayed in power in Nazi Germany, for instance. Still, Geib questioned the United States’ motives for going to war, citing economic benefits in places like Vietnam and Japan.
“We laid waste to these people and now what? We’re friends. We do business together,” said Geib.
Geib then turned to church history to explain his position.
“Not one learned theologian in the first three centuries wrote approvingly of Christian participation in war,” he said.
Christians sought to overcome with love as Jesus had, said Geib. In addition, there was the call to love other Christians and not kill them.
“You’ll have to kill other Christians [in war],” said Geib. “That’s what it gets down to.”
The pivotal moment in this was with the Roman Emperor Constantine, who legalized Christianity and professed it himself. Geib said that this opened the idea that perhaps war could be justified when done in the name of God.
“This is the tension in our world,” said Geib. “Whose sword are we going to use? The cross or Constantine’s?”
Taylor’s final call to students about war was to “not glorify it, and not turn it into this thing to be worshipped.”
While Taylor said he wouldn’t tell people what views to have on war, he does ask them to “not gloss over the details.”
Brooke Hickman, junior social work major, said she was slightly disappointed in the event.
“I expected it more to be about the consequences of war,” said Hickman. “I was interested in hearing about that. Instead it seemed like he talked a lot about when war is just and when it isn’t.”
No matter what the emphasis of the event was, Geib articulated his views about war clearly.
“I just don’t think that human beings were created by God to do this to each other,” Geib said.
Stephanie Morton is arts and entertainment editor and contributing writer for The Aviso.
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Why don’t you tell the women in the Congo to love their enemies–the men who have violently gang raped them, killed their families, abducted their children to be soldiers and spread AIDS all across the country.
These consequences of war should have been what the seminar was about.
Look up Joseph Kony and the Lord’s Resistance Army sometime. How do you propose he is stopped without violence? Sometimes caring for those widows and orphans means stopping the people who are hurting them by any means necessary. Don’t you think the end of Joseph Kony’s atrocities would bring peace to his victims and those living in fear of him everyday?
No, war is not always the answer but those who oppose it cannot pretend like it’s not happening
While I believe that Geib may have gone away from the advertised point of the event, I think that anyone there would understand he did so in efforts to accommodate the soldier in attendance. Often, the soldier kept going back to points that were not necessarily related to what Geib was trying to discuss. This is all well and good, but it was obvious the soldier’s goal was not to listen and have honest discussion but to try and show up Geib. Let’s be honest about this fact.
Also, the idea that people who oppose war and violence live in a bubble is as narrow minded as the image trying to be painted of those who hold that view. The atrocities that are rampant in this country are not due to some sort of “unpatriotic” disease or whatever image that is trying to be painted but instead by those who follow the flow. Joining the illogical idea that violence can end violence or that it leads to some sort of peace.
Peace only comes through Christ, who laid down his life. It does not come at the end of a “sword.” A love for enemies cannot be displayed with a bomb. And a caring for the poor and widow should also remember that creating them by killing others is not caring for them. War creates orphans, widows, and the impoverished. Not to mention is a destruction of the Shalom that God has promised for us.
Let’s not glorify destruction of what God has intended. Love God + Love your neighbor + Love your enemies = Jesus teachings.
I completely agree with Amy. Since the focus of this article is Dr. Geib’s pacifism, which was not the focus of the event whatsoever, the opposition to his view should have been elaborated on as well. The soldier who was there represented this opposition and respectfully conveyed it through his questions and comments. Why wasn’t he, or someone who shared his view, interviewed? Also, even though the consequences of war were not focused on at the event as they should have been, that is where the real story lies. People suffer for decades after a war has ravaged their country. Pacifist or not, the death of innocent people is never okay. The students of Malone need to get out of their 25th street bubbles and look at what is happening all over the world, even if it makes them uncomfortable. And frankly, it should. The atrocities that are rampant in this country and around the world cannot be ignored, especially when you’re a Christian. My only regret of the evening was that I did not thank that soldier for fighting for my freedom and way of life. Without people like him, we would not have this amazing country to live in. Thank God for people who are willing to fight.
Great job Stephanie!
Above all else, this event made me realize how fortunate I am not to live in the middle of a battle zone, unlike so many others. I’ve heard so many stories from members of the military, that completly confirm what Geib had to say. It’s easy to forget about all of the negative effects of war since we are so far removed from its immidiate effects. I am greatful for what Geib had to say, and I think you did an awesome job of summing up his key points for those who couldn’t be there!
Keep up the good work!
How is this unbiased journalism? There was apparently a lot of opposition to this deserter and no one felt the need to comment on it in this article? You’ve got to be kidding me. What about the soldier who came and debated the entire event? This is why the Aviso is not a real paper. You never cover a whole event. Just the part that agrees with what happened.